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Battery safety & which is the best battery to use?

Discussion in 'Beginners' started by Noe, Aug 7, 2015.

  1. Noe

    Noe Adorably quirky ... QUIRKY Noe! VCA Approved Post Whore

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Location:
    Noewhere
    New vapers, looking to upgrade to better mods, that use replaceable batteries frequently ask , " What is the best battery to use?"

    This question is difficult to answer because it really depends on the application or mod the battery will be used in.
    If all you are going to use is a mod that can output 20 watts then the best battery for that mod is going to be much different to the best battery for a mod that can output 100 Watts.
    Of course you could get a 100 watt mod & never take it over 20 Watts, so you could use the same battery as what is "best" for the 20 Watt mod, as long as you never use it above 20W.
    I personally have 100W mods, that have never been used at 100W & very rarely have been taken above 50W (mainly just for testing), the batteries I use in them are not capable of outputting the required Amperage to use the mod SAFELY at 100W.

    So the question of "which is the best battery" seems simple enough but there is no one "best" battery that is best suited for all applications.
    One thing that is very important, is to know where your batteries come from & that they are genuine Original Manufacturers batteries.
    What I mean by that is, there are many companies that re-wrap batteries & put their own branding on the new wrappers, often overstating the specifications beyond the Original Manufacturer's specs, sometimes quite dangerously.
    For this reason, I will only buy batteries from companies I know Manufacture their own batteries, these include LG, Samsung, Sony & Panasonic/Sanyo, there are others but these are IMO the 4 most common Original Manufacturers of good quality batteries.

    You should also be aware that no Original Manufacturer produces a battery rated at higher than 30 Amps, if you see a battery rated above 30A, it is a rewrap or a fake & not safe to use until you know its actual rating.
    However most batteries are not rated so high, the most common 18650 batteries are rated below 10A, there are fewer cells rated above 10A.

    For cost effectiveness & quality, one of the best high Amp batteries is the Samsung 25R, these are rated at 20A & can easily output 60W in your mod, however they may not be the best battery for your application.
    If you are using a 20W-30W device then a 10A rated battery will serve you better, that is because the MAH is likely to be higher, meaning you will get longer run time from a battery before needing to recharge it.
    The Samsung 25R only has 2500MAH capacity, although it can output up to 20A, while there are 10A rated batteries that have 3000MAH or higher.
    This relationship between Amps & MAH is what makes the question of "what is the best battery" application specific.
    Higher Amp rated cells will always have lower MAH capacity, while lower Amp rated cells will often have but not always, higher MAH capacity.

    The video below is a short 5min watch, if you are looking at upgrading to a better mod with replaceable batteries & don't know which batteries to use, then you should watch it.
    IMO it is a MUST WATCH video, even if your internet plan doesn't allow you to watch many videos & uses up a lot of your data allowance.



    If you have any questions relating to battery safety, please do not hesitate to ask them here!



    EDIT:
    This video interview with Mooch (well known battery tester & expert) is very good but much longer, however the first 20 minutes cover most of the information we need to know, you can skip the first 4 minutes too if you like:

     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2016
    MetalOz, Maria, KayP and 16 others like this.
  2. Gasman

    Gasman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    Location:
    Northern suburbs, Perth
    Thanks for taking the time to set this out Noe. It's exactly the subject I have been attempting to research lately after some recent guidance from yourself and other members. Your explanation was basically what I had managed to find and had made some notes for future reference but your explanations put all this important information into a good and easy ( even for me) to understand format. Would it be possible to have this remain in an area that is easily noticeable for anybody to access. With my limited knowledge I think it's called a sticky? Battery safety is such an important subject and one that if ignored could have catastrophic results. The problem is it appears to me that there is vapers that either don't care or don't know about it which is worrying . It's also particularly important for new vapers to try and understand with the plethora of high wattage mods currently hitting the shelves.
     
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  3. Charles Vaper

    Charles Vaper Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2015
    Location:
    Gladesville, NSW, Australia
    I applaud all efforts regarding Battery education and safety.
    Nice job.
     
    Maria, Old Grump and Noe like this.
  4. Pipesub

    Pipesub Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2015
    Location:
    Hobart, Tasmania
    While I’m not absolutely “green” new to mech mods and have a couple, I’ve never used them on a regular basis I now have a great PC WMC Squonker and am keen to use it more.

    This brings me to the question of batteries and monitoring of when to change them out and how to not exceed the recommended discharge voltage.

    Now, I’ve read quite a bit (Noe’s battery thread, DogMan’s New Mech User thread, Box Modders “Pinned Posts”, Pegasus Vapor Academy battery posts, Candle Power dot Com, etc).

    I understand Ωs law and the inverse relationship between MAh & Amps, own a MMeter & inline voltage tester and have a good charger. I buy all my batteries from Supersoprts600 and toss any batts that fall below 2.5vdc, or are over a year old. I don’t blow clouds and build between 0.8Ω and 1.6Ω. So, I’m not a complete numpty nor do I play in the dark area of high wattage.
    That said I do have one problem - I’m constantly carrying my inline voltage tester to check my battery voltage. There has to a better way.
    Before you more experienced users chime in with “You’ll learn to feel the difference” or “if you don’t have the patience for mechs get a regulated mod”: I don’t want to feel I want to know - before I vent and I have regulated mods.
    One of those regulated mods is a BilletBox and it uses AW RCR123 Protected batteries. These little beauties have a cut out voltage. Vape, vape, vape … no vape, replace batteries.

    Now, that's what I’d like for a mech battery.

    I haven’t found any AW RCR123 in 18650 or any other size. Neither have I uncovered anyone asking about this. That’s probably because these protected batteries are not to be used in a mech - regulated only.


    The only other option I can think of is a small (hopefully) circuit to fire an LED when the battery voltage gets to 3.6vdc. This would have to go into self made box mods. An add on would have to be packaged into a topper that would sit in between the mod and the atty.

    Something like this.
    (if this is inappropriate for this thread please remove)
    [​IMG]
     
  5. DogMan

    DogMan Yes

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2015
    Location:
    S/E Melbourne
    In your ohm range you can use a 2 cent for safety fuse. Googling that will bring them up.

    Sent from my GT-I9506 using Tapatalk
     
    Pipesub likes this.
  6. Pipesub

    Pipesub Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2015
    Location:
    Hobart, Tasmania
    Yeah, had thought of the fuse. That would sort out the safety aspect but the rest ... ?


    Sent from my ZX80 using CPM
     
  7. Noe

    Noe Adorably quirky ... QUIRKY Noe! VCA Approved Post Whore

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Location:
    Noewhere
    It's possible to install a volt meter into a mech mod, which will constantly tell you how much voltage remains in the batteries, don't ask me how, I've never done it, I just know it is possible.
    The volt meter does not act as a regulator, it is simply a monitor, in a parallel battery config, it will start at 4.2v & when it reaches 3.2 - 3.4v it will be time to re4charge your batts & yes you will know by the "feel" whether you want to change at 3.4v or 3.2v.
    In a series config, the volts will start at 8.4v & go down to 6.4- 6.8v, indicating that you need to recharge, of course you can recharge above those low voltage figures but for battery health, 3.2v per cell is the lowest you really want to be draining them.
    Additionally, you want a volt meter that will go well below 3.2v, down to 1v is probably a bit of overkill as at 2v you are going to be getting an extremely poor vape. Also you want the meter to be able to read up to 4.5v for parallel & 9v for series, as some Li-Ion cells are rated above 4.2v (4.35v although you need a charger that can charge them that high, most will not) , this allows you to see if the batteries have been overcharged, which can also be a potential problem.

    There are some mech mods coming out of China, with dual 18650 capability & a volt meter built in, so the technology exists.

    BTW, you won't find RCR batteries in 18650 size because CR123 batteries are their own size & made by various brands.
     
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  8. Pipesub

    Pipesub Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2015
    Location:
    Hobart, Tasmania
    Thanks Noe. That was the part I didn't know. :thumbup:
     
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  9. Jennifer

    Jennifer Pyjama Queen

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Location:
    Perth
    With all these strange new batteries I am now using (iStick, Innokin CoolFire, Innokin Endura battery, EgoOne battery) I have several usb cords that came with them for charging. The cords all look the same to me, so does it matter which cord I use for which device? Or do I have to use the exact cord I got with the battery?

    Also, I have a wall plug that I've been using to charge my ego batteries for years, can I plug these cords into the wall plug and charge them that way?
     
    margyb likes this.
  10. margyb

    margyb Great Balls of Fire

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Location:
    Lindisfarne Tasmania
    If anyone knows which battery to use when my istick 20 and 30 die
    I would be really grateful ? @Noe

    my husband knows how to pull one apart as he soldered a loose wire in one for me once
     
    emu likes this.
  11. DogMan

    DogMan Yes

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2015
    Location:
    S/E Melbourne
    Your ego wall thingy will be 0.5amp. What that means is it will charge vvvveeerrrrryyyyy ssssslllloooowww.

    It will work. But some of your batteries may support a full 1amp. Which would reduce charging time

    Sent from my GT-I9506 using Tapatalk
     
    Jennifer likes this.
  12. Judith

    Judith Mostly harmless

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Location:
    Tasmania
    Your phone charger is most likely 1 amp. It will be on the wall plug in illegible writing and you will probably need a magnifying glass.
     
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  13. Jennifer

    Jennifer Pyjama Queen

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Location:
    Perth
    Dogman is right I think, the ego thing says 500mA.

    Moon you are right, even with a torch and my reading googles it's hard to see my phone one, but I think it says 750mA?

    No one said anything about using the cords interchangeably? They all look identical to me....so does it matter which one I use as long as the little dooviwatsit fits in the little hole?
     
  14. emu

    emu Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    Location:
    Chorkerup Rd W.A
    My phone charger is 1500mA, I use a 2000 mA wall charger for all the isticks and it is excellent.
     
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  15. DogMan

    DogMan Yes

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2015
    Location:
    S/E Melbourne
    You can use a low one on something that supports higher. But not the other way around

    Sent from my GT-I9506 using Tapatalk
     
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  16. Jennifer

    Jennifer Pyjama Queen

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Location:
    Perth
    How the fuck do I know though? I don't wanna blow myself up, but I can't actually remember what cord belongs to what battery. As I said, they all look the same.

    This is ridiculous. :soapbox:
     
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  17. Jennifer

    Jennifer Pyjama Queen

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Location:
    Perth
    And when I plug the Innokin CoolFire into my computer I get a message that says 'USB device not recognised'.....does that matter?
     
    margyb likes this.
  18. DogMan

    DogMan Yes

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2015
    Location:
    S/E Melbourne
    Your computer says that? It just means it has nfi what you plugged in. But it will charge it. At 0.5amps

    Sent from my GT-I9506 using Tapatalk
     
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  19. Judith

    Judith Mostly harmless

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Location:
    Tasmania
    I assume the mod has a battery icon on it. Is there something moving on that icon? It should show if it is charging and your computer thinks it is something to read when it is only charging.
     
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  20. emu

    emu Banned

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    Aug 31, 2015
    Location:
    Chorkerup Rd W.A
    :blonde:
     
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