1. Thank you to all those who submitted to the Federal Inquiry into E-Cigarettes for making your story count in the fight to legalise nicotine in Australia. Submissions may be viewed HERE.
    Dismiss Notice

Inquiry into the Use of Electronic Cigarettes and Personal Vaporisers

Discussion in 'Politics, News, Media, Campaigns' started by Nico and Laughter, May 25, 2017.

  1. Nico and Laughter

    Nico and Laughter Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2015
    Location:
    Wollongong the brave!
    I rang to complain today about the AMA publishing their submission. He took my details for the secritariat to get back to me.
     
  2. margyb

    margyb Great Balls of Fire

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Location:
    Lindisfarne Tasmania
    From Colin's Facebook

    Report on public hearing of e-cigarette inquiry
    Posted by DrMendelsohn on 12 July, 2017

    [​IMG]The first public hearing for the federal parliamentary inquiry into e-cigarettes was held today at Parliament House in Sydney. Witnesses were Dr Alex Wodak, Dr Attila Danko, A/Prof Colin Mendelsohn and Dr Sandra Costigan, a toxicologist from Nicoventures, the e-cigarette subsidiary of British American Tobacco.

    We were told that Professor Simon Chapman and the TGA refused to attend because a representative of the Tobacco Industry was present. This was very disappointing as we would have like the opportunity to discuss Professor Chapman’s views on e-cigarettes in person. He has also previously declined to participate in a public debate with us.

    The *parliamentary committee gave a very fair hearing and asked many questions to clarify the issues around e-cigarettes. They are clearly approaching the inquiry with an open mind and are wanting to genuinely understand the issues. There was interest in taking a medicinal approach to nicotine which requires a prescription (as opposed to a consumer approach). However, the witnesses were unanimous in rejecting that proposal.

    A challenging issue to resolve
    The committee has a very difficult job. There is one body of evidence and two opposing expert interpretations. The problem is that views on e-cigarettes are as much about ideology, entrenched beliefs and biases as they are about the evidence. The ideology of tobacco control for the last 50 years has been the complete elimination of addiction, nicotine and tobacco companies. Tobacco harm reduction is not part of that view.

    The reality is that a large proportion of smokers are simply unable or unwilling to quit and remain at high risk and many of these are disadvantaged members of the community. We can’t just sacrifice these people. Millions are switching to e-cigarettes, with substantial health benefits.

    The challenge for the committee is to peel off the layers of ideology and biases and find the underlying evidence. We need to keep focussed on the main goal, which is to reduce the death and disease caused by smoking.

    We need to weigh the huge public health benefit of e-cigarettes against the potential risks to children taking up smoking, risk of renormalising the act of smoking and undermining tobacco control, for which the UK Royal College of England says there is currently no evidence after 10 years of use.

    We now have enough information to proceed with making e-cigarettes with nicotine legally available while monitoring the outcomes as have many other similar countries. There is a very high cost to public health in waiting longer.

    I will post the Hansard from the meeting once it is prepared.

    By the way, there are many other submissions to the inquiry which have not been published online. We were advised today that they will not appear for several weeks, until Parliament next sits.
     
  3. Christina Ballerina

    Christina Ballerina Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2015
    Location:
    Swan Lake
    Thanks margy, what is the hansard?
     
  4. margyb

    margyb Great Balls of Fire

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Location:
    Lindisfarne Tasmania
    It is the official documentation of who said what at the hearing , and will be on record at parliament
    When it is up we can read what was said by everyone at the hearing
     
  5. Jennifer

    Jennifer Pyjama Queen

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Location:
    Perth
    WTF? That's a bit shit. Surely they have an office clerk who can upload them while they are all on their generous holiday leave?

    The committee members were supposed to read them all before the hearing today, so presumably they have. What's stopping someone from just uploading them. It's a days work, max.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
    margyb and Christina Ballerina like this.
  6. The Vaper

    The Vaper I Vape ∴ I Am

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Location:
    Sydney 2016
    Interesting bit in the paragraph just preceding that one..
    Notice how they just trail off about Canada, when that paragraph should have ended something like..
    Boy I'd like some of the drugs they were on when writing that. That's some primo sh*t, dude!

    But I suppose their claim at the beginning of the next paragraph is technically true. After all, how many countries besides Australia can claim the entire world is laughing at them? Unique indeed!
     
  7. Christina Ballerina

    Christina Ballerina Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2015
    Location:
    Swan Lake
    This is not following protocol. It is astonishing, particularly after they cancelled the Melbourne hearing at such short notice.Did anyone give an explanation for this?
    They should be held fully accountable and yes I agree Jen that any bod could have uploaded the rest of the submissions.

    Only a portion of the relevant information is available, I still smell a rat. I would be interested to know if the participants today actually did have access to the rest of the submissions, I rather doubt it particularly as Attilo had to make a guesstimate about the number of submissions.

    Although today was a very positive start, it puts me in mind of court cases where the last people to give evidence, make great waves at the nth hour.
    I hope I am wrong.

    I would like answers to these questions from our very well paid public servants.
     
    Charles Vaper and Jennifer like this.
  8. The Vaper

    The Vaper I Vape ∴ I Am

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Location:
    Sydney 2016
    What I understand (probably from something @margyb told us ten posts back) is that the committee members have to approve each submission before it is made public.
    I'm not sure that applies to the 'round table discussion'. OTOH I'm often completely wrong. It surprised me when one of the MPs mentioned that todays proceedings were not covered by parliamentary privilege. I'm pretty sure that testimony is covered (by parliamentary privilege or similar, if not named that).
     
    margyb and Jennifer like this.
  9. Jennifer

    Jennifer Pyjama Queen

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Location:
    Perth
    Just seems like they make all these rules, but then no one actually abides by them. Well, except us, we have to obey them.

    I'm also annoyed that there is a big build up for us, then all of a sudden parliament is closed for a holiday right in the middle of everything.....we have to have our submissions in by a certain date, not publish them anywhere, do the right thing. But they can't even get them up on the website before they bugger off for several weeks leaving us all hanging.

    I'm feeling quite grumpy. :confused:
     
    margyb and Christina Ballerina like this.
  10. The Vaper

    The Vaper I Vape ∴ I Am

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Location:
    Sydney 2016
    Hmmm... I actually got to meet a guy from the Tax Payer's Alliance today, and although I had my reservations about their 'form submit' approach, I didn't mention it. Nice to see so many advocates on social media were advising caution on making a submission by that route. It would seem the committee intends to completely ignore those (as soon as they can figure out which ones they are).
     
    margyb and Christina Ballerina like this.
  11. Christina Ballerina

    Christina Ballerina Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2015
    Location:
    Swan Lake
    Me too, as you may have gathered. Are we going to be used and abused again. This may sound dramatic, but there is something very fishy going on here IMO.
     
    DogMan likes this.
  12. Aqualung

    Aqualung Vagrant

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2015
    Reference to Attila's tweet.

    The suggestion that Chapman and the TGA refused to attend due to BT being there is interesting. Such a refusal is clearly a political action. Chapman is entitled, he is a purely political actor in this debacle. But how can the TGA, a government authority, engage in it. They are supposed to be the independant authority, free from bias, driven by pure science rather than ideological agenda etc, etc etc.

    Surely such childish posturing casts substantial doubt on their decision making processes regarding the low strength nicotine application, as well as any submission they make to this inquiry
     
    margyb, DogMan, Pippi and 1 other person like this.
  13. The Vaper

    The Vaper I Vape ∴ I Am

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Location:
    Sydney 2016
    I expect they'll argue it's based on the (childish & moronic) Article 5.3 of the FCTC, which encourages decision makers not to be influenced by the tobacco industry by ..not talking to them!

    There was a case where a representative of ASH Scotland (I think) chose to chide a Scottish politician for doing so. He tore her a few new holes & confirmed he'd consult with whoever he (damn well) chose. :rofl:

    I was also pleased to see that this committee see themselves as ..mature enough to listen to what the tobacco industry has to say and make their own judgements. It could be fun if the sediment feeders from Australian tobacco control make the same mistake as the woman from ASH Scotland. :sillygrin:
     
    margyb and Aqualung like this.
  14. Christina Ballerina

    Christina Ballerina Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2015
    Location:
    Swan Lake
    Sorry Simon, unless you are feeling sad about not getting attention ........:finger::finger::finger::finger::finger:
    Just go away.
    You are history now, especially as you need to resort to lies and deformation of character.
    BYE BYE
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
  15. Christina Ballerina

    Christina Ballerina Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2015
    Location:
    Swan Lake
    Good on you, they have broken the rules, unlike most of us and their submission should be deleted, no question or debate about it.
     
  16. margyb

    margyb Great Balls of Fire

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Location:
    Lindisfarne Tasmania
    Submission frm Australian Dentists. Rubbish:thumbsdown:
    link

    https://www.ada.org.au/News-Media/N...rettes-and-Personal-Vap/20170706-E-cigarettes

    Quote

    "E-cigarettes pose oral health and health dangers as they contain harmful chemicals, including carcinogens which are absorbed when inhaled. "

    The ADA urges the Australian Government to adopt in the precautionary principle and adopt the same regulations that underpin the use, manufacturing and marketing of tobacco products; applying them to e-cigarettes and personal vaporisers and ENDS "

    So Quickmist ok? And nicorette gum and inhalator ok?


    Another one out before published on site I think?

    I can't see it on government site ??
    Unless they got permission to post??
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
  17. Christina Ballerina

    Christina Ballerina Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2015
    Location:
    Swan Lake
    I sent an addendum about an hour ago, complaining about AMA and Chappie.
     
    Flea, laurie9300 and The Vaper like this.
  18. Aqualung

    Aqualung Vagrant

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2015
    I don't think much of their proofreaders, all that adopting going on.
    But nevertheless, I appreciate the recommendation to regulate as tobacco products, but only if that includes the exemption under the Poisons Schedule too. Which it must, since they include ENDS.
    Or did I completely misread?
     
    The Vaper likes this.
  19. The Vaper

    The Vaper I Vape ∴ I Am

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Location:
    Sydney 2016
    I doubt that's what they meant by 'treated like tobacco'. I think they meant 'reviled'. OTOH it did not stop me making this tweet..

     
    Aqualung likes this.
  20. Aqualung

    Aqualung Vagrant

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2015
    :clap:
    But why are they handing that nice typist a bindfold and cigarette
     
    The Vaper likes this.

Share This Page