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Simple vaping - getting started

Discussion in 'Beginners' started by Gabby, Dec 29, 2016.

  1. Gabby

    Gabby Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2016
    Location:
    Adelaide
    This thread is about initial simple MTL vaping, and in particular about getting started. It's not about cloudchasing, or fiddling with your watts and voltages, or wrapping your own coils - all fun things in the long run, but getting started is complicated enough without all these other things to get in the way. This is the introductory post, but I'll add more later on this subject.

    I was lucky when I started because I was advised by a pro who put me onto a simple AIO (all in one) with 18mg juice.
    My first big mistake was to start by sucking the vapour directly into my lungs (DTL) - a bit stupid really because most of us don't smoke that way - instead we draw the smoke into our mouth before sucking it into our lungs (mouth to lung or MTL).
    My second big mistake was to then immediately order a more expensive complex box mod as my backup. Not only was the draw too loose, but it popped and spat at me. It took a lot of fiddling and assistance both here and from the manufacturer to reach a just-tolerable vape (for me), and even then the thing is so complex to set up, I'm not sure I could get it back to the setting it's currently on.
    My third big mistake was to assume that because an starter kit was promoted as being an MTL AIO, it would suit me. The biggest problem was that its draw was too loose for me.
     
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  2. Gabby

    Gabby Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2016
    Location:
    Adelaide
    This one's about DRAW, the amount of sucking you need to get your hit.
    With a lot of the equipment out there you can't set them to give you a tight enough draw. Most cigs take a lot of sucking to get the smoke, and part of the transition to vaping is simulating that sucking effort. This is an important issue initially for us to accept vaping as a plausible alternative, at least it is for me (maybe I should have been weaned earlier). It's all part of the routine of smoking.

    Over time as we become more used to vaping, there appears to be a tendency to prefer a looser draw, even if vaping MTL. I know that now after some weeks of partial vaping, I can accept a slightly looser draw, but I think I might vape more in this case.

    IMO this results in many of the 'starter kits' out there not having a setting which will give me the tight draw I want. After all, most of the 'informed' sales they make are to semi-experienced vapers. Many YouTube reviews of new gear are not so useful in this regard. It's obvious that most of the reviewers normally vape DTL, and in one review of an AIO supposedly ideal for MTL, the reviewer didn't once use the MTL technique, and obviously had it set on a very loose draw.
     
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  3. Flea

    Flea Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Location:
    Gold Coast
    Spot on Gabby. After 6.5 years of vaping, I guess I'm a tootle puffer?
    Only been on RTAs for about 1.5 years,
    All my tanks I vape with the air flow control shut right down at 7Watts.
     
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  4. Gabby

    Gabby Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2016
    Location:
    Adelaide
    SIZE does matter if you're going to tote the PV around with you, and particularly if you want to vape stealthily. On the other hand, smaller PVs have less capacity in both battery and and juice. My general advice is to go smallish, change later if needed. In the early days it's probably better to get 2 PVs than one large one, because this gives you other contingency options (like if you drop one and it breaks).

    Below is my eGo ONE, a very simple older PV about 10.5 cm long. Its battery (built in) is 1100mah and it holds 1.8ml juice. For me that's plenty for a day using MTL. It's small enough for pocket or purse, and also quite light. I could accept it say 2 cm longer, and a bit thicker, but no more.
    [​IMG]
    These types of PVs charge using micro USB connectors the same as most phones, so you can get a charge in your car, from a PC or power bank - so easy these days. You can also carry extra juice - you can get protectors for bottles from Fasttech and others.

    One of my latest buys was a more modern version of the eGo ONE, with a larger tank and battery. This was a bit accidental, because it was the only one I could get online at the price. Overall it's a bit long for me, but I compromise by using the new tank and the old battery - the parts are interchangeable - getting a composite PV only a cm or so longer but with larger juice capacity (2.5ml).

    I should add that the dimensions specified on Ebay, Fasttech and other general vendor sites are often plain wrong, usually because they've copied it from the wrong version of the PV. Better to go to the makers website where they normally get it right.

    STEALTH influences configuration and operation as well as size. I know from experience that non-smokers (and even smokers) seem a bit shocked when they see a largish complex box mod - the smaller tubes get much less attention. Also you need a PV that doesn't spit, crackle and pop when using MTL, so your vaping is almost silent, which means you need one which is designed for MTL. (I've seen the looks of disgust on non-smokers' faces when my PV pops - it's not a nice sound for them, or for me. And if you have the wrong tip, you often get some in the mouth. Yuk!!)

    Am I paranoid? Well I could be - how would I know?:) But many folks have a prejudice against vapers which comes directly from their experiences with smokers. The education continues. I think it's also useful to show smokers that vaping isn't a big deal, and that it can be done so easily with the right gear and technique.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
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  5. Gabby

    Gabby Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2016
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Noe's newbie list is at http://www.vapercafeaustralia.com/threads/noes-list-newbie-shopping-guide-revised-2016-edition.2047/

    This is one of the best resources here and was an absolute godsend when I first found it, particularly in understanding the paraphernalia of vaping. Most of it is still valid, although it seems like HeavenGifts no longer posts juice with nicotine to Australia at any reasonable price. I also found the advice re kits a bit complex for my tastes. I prefer simple modern non-box starter kits.

    I now use Fasttech (https://www.fasttech.com/) as my one stop shop. You'll find many references to them on VCA - often just as 'FT' - some of it good, some notso. I've haven't had any problems at all so far.

    For a PV, I can only recommend the eGo ONE from personal experience, but there's been a lot of positive discussion here about the eGo AIO and the Aspire Pockex starter kits for MTL beginners (the eGo AIO also has a box starter kit - don't be confused). I've ordered each of these and will update here when I've tried them out.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
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  6. Gabby

    Gabby Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2016
    Location:
    Adelaide
    What about JUICE then? Smoker beginners normally prefer juices with softer flavours. If your cig-rate is 20+ per day, then you probably need nicotine content around 18mg/ml to start with.

    https://www.fasttech.com/products/3009/10004083/1297508 links to 30ml of Liqua vanilla flavour (vanilla flavour is usually fairly innocuous) with 18mg/ml nic. The PG/VG ratio is 70/30 which is good for stealth vaping because it doesn't make a cloud of steam.

    I find this a bit strong for my taste, so you may need to dilute it with https://www.fasttech.com/products/3009/10004420/3949903. This is 30ml of flavourless 16mg/ml juice. The cost of these 2 is probably about $10 or so, total.

    If you're going to mix juices (to dilute them), you should also get some spare bottles, syringes, and dispensing/refilling (blunt) needles as Noe suggests, all of which should cost you less than $10 too. It's not going to break the bank.

    There are tons of juices out there, so if you're into flavour you have an interesting time ahead.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
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  7. Gabby

    Gabby Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2016
    Location:
    Adelaide
    COILS. Apart from juices the only other consumable you need to worry about is coils, which will probably last a week or two using MTL, longer with 'thin' juices. You need to make sure that the coils you buy match the PV you've bought, and they'll probably cost you under $3 each online, typically in packs of 2, 5 or more.

    You'll also need to work out which coils to buy, because coils come in various 'ohm' ratings. Generally for MTL vaping you'll probably find 1.0Ω or higher is better, both in the amount of vapour produced, the tightness of the draw, and in avoiding spitting and spitback.

    At lower resistances (called 'subohming') the watts drawn from the battery are higher for a constant battery voltage producing more vapour, and the coils are built for a fast and loose draw. Generally you'll find these coils less satisfying for MTL vaping, which needs a slow tight draw.

    Finally, all the gear I've talked of here is available at your local vape store, except for the nic juice of course. You might pay a little more, but you'll often get great advice and a chance to see the stuff before you buy it. (For those in Perth, your local vape store may be Adelaide. Sorry bout that.)::)
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
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  8. Gabby

    Gabby Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2016
    Location:
    Adelaide
    I finally got my hands on an eGo AIO (basic). I can recommend this too but I still prefer the eGo ONE. It's about 1cm longer than my ONE but that's OK. I checked this with unflavoured juice, so I can't comment on flavour.

    One thing I really like about the AIO is the light in the tank which allows me to check my juice level easily, including in the dark. You may scoff about this, but with my bad eyes I can only see my juice level on my ONE in very bright conditions. OTOH this is not ideal for stealthily vaping in dark places, but you can turn it off and on fairly easily (and change the colour - wow!!!).

    On the con side, I found the draw of the AIO a bit too loose, but tolerable. It has a flow adjustment but gets knocked out of whack easily - even so I can't get the draw as tight as I'd like. It's also a bit noisier (crackling) than my ONE and the juice is warmer, probably because of the supplied coil (o.6Ω).

    I tried it with a Cubis Clapton 1.5Ω coil I had lying around, but it didn't improve the draw. I've ordered a 1Ω, so we'll see if there's any improvement with that.

    [I don't seem to be able to edit my previous posts now - probably too late, so I'll add this here.]
    I had a quick look on the web for eGo ONEs, and they come in various configurations (even the basic one). These include a bigger tank and/or a bigger battery, both of which will make them longer. Something to watch out for if length is important for you (it is for me - no smirking:)).
     
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  9. Gabby

    Gabby Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2016
    Location:
    Adelaide
    OK, I've now had a chance to try out the Aspire PockeX as well. I found that it had a looser draw than the eGo AIO and was also noisy, and I can't recommend it. Otherwise it's a nice AIO starter kit.

    Beginners like me are most satisfied by a slow tight draw, which simulates a drag on a cigarette. You just can't get that on the PockeX. The draw's not ideal on the eGo AIO either (which has some flow control), but it's significantly better than the PockeX. There are ways around this discussed in http://www.vapercafeaustralia.com/threads/aspire-pockex-all-in-one-review.4436/, but they're not what I'd want to be doing as a beginner.

    It's not just the draw. If you're going to be doing a slow draw, you really need a coil resistance around 1.0Ω or so, rather than the 0.5Ω - 0.6Ω supplied as it comes. The higher resistance produces the vapour needed for a slower draw; at the lower ohms it's producing 3-4 times more than it should and is consequently noisier and hotter. Unfortunately there doesn't appear to be a coil in this range for the PockeX, but there is for the eGo AIO: Cubis 1.0Ω coils which apparently work quite well - I have some on order.

    So my recommendations are as follows:
    1. eGo ONE with a 1.0Ω coils (usually comes with at least one), if you can get them, or otherwise ...
    2. eGo AIO with additional Cubis 1.0Ω coils which you need to buy separately.
     
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  10. Flea

    Flea Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Location:
    Gold Coast
    Noe .............. ???
     
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  11. Flea

    Flea Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Location:
    Gold Coast
    Can I butt in and ask a question?

    Is it possible to build your own coils on the three mods mentioned?

    I do realise building coils is not for beginners.
     
  12. Gabby

    Gabby Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2016
    Location:
    Adelaide
    According to FT's catalog, the answer is no, but I know stuff-all about rebuilding.

    Not a downside for choosing a beginner's PV, of course. How many out there use ego-style kits with rebuilt coils?
     
  13. DogMan

    DogMan Butler

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2015
    Location:
    S/E Melbourne
    you are 4 months in, gabby

    verging on "veteran"
     
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  14. Gabby

    Gabby Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2016
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Some of us never grow up, Dogman. :shrug:

    As a 20% vaper I'm still on my training wheels. The only veteran-ish aspects of my game are my white hair and a tendency to put up with a looser draw now.

    But I remember when I started and that tight draw was important.
     
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  15. iamTezr

    iamTezr Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2016
    Location:
    4 Seasons in 1 day (Melb)
    Just thought I'll clear this question up in case a beginner might decide to give rebuilding coil a go just because they enjoy vaping so much and they want to advance to the next level

    Ego AIO - the basic D19 can use the Cubis RBA for rebuilding (apparently the cubis RBA doesn't work on the D16 or D22)
    Ego ONE - can use the CLR (Note the R at the end of the CL is the rebuildable coil)
    Aspire Pockex - No RBA option due to their unique design.

    But just to mention that all 3 stock coils can be rebuilt with some time and patient.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2017
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  16. Noe

    Noe Adorably quirky ... QUIRKY Noe! VCA Approved Post Whore

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Location:
    Noewhere
    I get what you are saying here but I disagree to some extent.
    The Pockex is not perfect for a vaper that needs a very tight draw but taking slow MTL puffs is very doable with the Pockex, it virtually adjusts to the user's draw style, unless they need an extreme of either very tight or very loose draw.
    It does crackle a little but it is not loud unless you are in a very quiet area like a Library or Dr's surgery waiting room, where you probably shouldn't be vaping in any case.

    As for vapor production, again this comes down to draw, instead of taking that 3 second puff like you would on a cancer stick, if you take a soft 1 second puff you will approximate the low volume of "cloud" from smoking.

    I do really get what you are saying but I think you are only thinking of new vapers as having all the same needs, needs much like your own.
    New vapers do not all need a very tight draw, 6 years of vaping experience & helping new vapers has taught me this. I do agree that the 0.6 ohm coils are perhaps limiting & I would like to see a second coil in the range of 1.0 - 1.2 ohm available as an option for the Pockex, with perhaps reduced draw provided in the coil. However as a beginner device, I truly believe the Pockex will suit many new vapers, some may find the draw too restrictive & some (like you) may find the draw too loose. For those vapers there are other options available or even, as we discussed, a solution for vapers needing a tighter draw, that is inexpensive & easy to apply, simply by using a silicon ring to restrict the air intake.

    As for the eGo ONE, I have only had experience using the eGo ONE Mega tank, which uses the exact same coil heads. There is a very real risk of those coil heads not wicking enough to keep up with the demand of the vaper, unless you like a very light vape. If the coil does not keep up with the demands for wicking, you will burn the wick of the coil very quickly & aside from getting expensive because you need to constantly replace coils too frequently, new vapers may not realise this & be inhaling burnt hits, with acreolin(sp)(& possibly formaldehyde) produced by the burning wicks.
    So I could not disagree with the eGo one option more, as a first device for new vapers, the design of those coils is terrible.

    The Pockex remains my #1 recommendation to new vapers, for it's simplicity, quality & ease of use, which suits a large range of vaping styles.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
  17. Flea

    Flea Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Location:
    Gold Coast
    Thanks for the answer, Tezr. :)
     
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  18. snuffy

    snuffy Guest

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Hard to go past a Nautilus on an iStick for a beginner, excellent flavour, 4 different airflow settings, dual vertical bottom coil setup, big 5ml capacity, cheap and easy to use.
    Stainless steel sleeves available which makes em bullet proof, interchangeable drip tip, no leaks, available in a mini version, easy to clean.
     
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  19. 1ynne

    1ynne Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2016
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Great posts Gabby ! its nice to see someone sharing their experiences on the vaping journey. I was just thinking that I started with the Endura T18 - and it felt like the draw of smoking... after a short while (only a few months) I felt like I wanted more air.. but it maybe something that you might enjoy.. or the T/22.. and coils are cheap... I then moved on to a small mod (evic mini) and cubis tank, nautilus tank, and today I still use it with the Vika Fanatasy Clone... I really wonder if a small mod with the nautilus mini /vika clone ( they both use nautilus coils) might be a really great starter kit... even better than all of those currently marketed as starter kits... certainly it would allow people to swap tanks as their vaping style changes... and certainly more options as regards air flow... I am not sure ...I am really just thinking out loud here...
     
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  20. 1ynne

    1ynne Member

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    Mar 12, 2016
    Location:
    Melbourne
    geeze snuffy I was just typing that lol 'snap' !!!!!!!!!!!!
     
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