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thinking of starting to d.i.y

Discussion in 'DIY Flavours, Mixing, Recipes' started by crispernator, Jul 27, 2016.

  1. crispernator

    crispernator Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2015
    Location:
    adelaide
    Hi all well i have thought avout doing the D.I.Y thing for a while now ,so far i have got a couple of stirrers ,some syringes of different sizes a glass mixing container and thats about all ,so what other parafanialia will i need . I have also been saving my empty old bottles have quite a few that have been washed out so i can use them when i start mixing .
    I saw a post for flavour sfrom aussie e cigs in another post and know of flavors apprentice ect ,i have been playing around with the juice me up program but have a lot of questions in regards to how to mk up say a 30ml batch with no nic ,i think i am really going to need some help in areas of what i need to have in regards to equipment and where to buy flavors from ect .
     
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  2. Judith

    Judith Mostly harmless

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Location:
    Tasmania
    A lot of reading would help you. There is lots of info in threads in the Juice section. I mainly use unflavoured now but have bought concentrates from The Juice Factory, Vapoureyes and Vapewhore. Rupert has posted lots of recipes that look good although I haven't mixed any because it seems I never have the right flavours to do a recipe. Usually they have the strength to mix on the vendor site (from 1% to 20%) depending on the flavour but you still have to figure out roughly how much of each flavour to use if you are using more than one. Sometimes you have to look online to find the percentage. It is better to mix without nicotine for a while as you play with a recipe so you don't waste your nic if it is crap and you will be doing a fair bit of experimenting if you are not following recipes. I think that Sydney Vapor (?) has packs of flavouring that try to copy famous e-liquids. There is a lot of information and a lot of variables when you DIY unless you follow someone else's recipe but a good or bad recipe is always subjective anyway. It seems to be the general opinion that it is better to use too little flavouring than too much.

    I use the E-Juice Me Up calculator for mixing too. Once you play with that software a bit it should make your DIY easy. You don't have to put in an amount in the nic box as long as you put in a zero the software is happy.

    One hint I got from Donna when I started was to pull the plunger out of the syringe and pour in from the top when measuring VG because it is so thick. That hint made my life a lot easier.

    I use an ultrasonic cleaner to speed up the steeping (blending of all the ingredients into something palatable) but time in a dark cupboard will do a good job. Lots of different ways of doing that too so it is trial and error or just mixing liquids which don't need steeping. Tobacco and custard vapes are two examples of flavours which seem to benefit from steeping but a lot of the fruit liquids seems to not need steeping. It's all too complicated which is why I am lazy and mix unflavoured. Takes me a few minutes to mix large amounts. I am a very lazy vaper.

    Hopefully some DIY experts will turn up soon.
     
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  3. Oldhead

    Oldhead Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Be prepared to spend some time on DIY , depending on how adventurous you are with flavors , Internet Recipe pages are full of variations and my tip would be if following any posted recipe (look for the number of stars or recommendations) as a starting point .
    Just like your kitchen,when cooking ,(what goes with what) the main ingredient then add. You woudnt use Almond with Tomato sauce!!!!!!!
    Fruit flavors are a great way to start ,as almost all can be mixed with each other and some truly great variations are possible .
    Try to use one brand of flavors to start ,as costs can escalate quickly and your flavor concentrate stash will explode.
    Paint all your syringe measurements with your wifes clear nail polish and the writing scale will never disappear,wash your syringes out religesly with warm water and dry completely (plenty of tissues on hand ).
    Date your flavor concentrates ,some can loose potency with time.
    Pull VG and PG out of fridge at least 30 min before mixing so as to be able to pour /measure correctly . Room temp helps greatly.
    Small 1ml diabetic syringes are very useful for minute measuring .
    I keep a spread sheet for all my flavors and experiments. Easy to go back to for references and tweaking.
    Good luck , and a great hobby.
    E-liquid calculator | dot1ml is a very simple calculator to use and easy to navigate .
    Vaporeyes Aust now have a huge selection of concentrates .
    Almost all concentrates are PG based , stay away from alchohol based .
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2016
  4. Wanda

    Wanda Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2016
    Location:
    Mandurah WA
    Ive just started as well and finding it grate fun, Ive found stick to tryed and tested mixes then you cant go wrong, i found Sydney vapor clone packs a easy way to start, then you can add to your flavor stock from there, diy or diy has his own site with recipes, there ar a few good simple ones on there with that have been made a thousand times over, and most chemists have syringes behind the counter for giving children medicine so when i go in there i get a few at a time they usually come in 1,3,5,10 ml and range from 20-50c each

    For got to add there are some grate recipes on here as well have a look through the recipes vault and you have the added benefit of asking the creator and questions as well im sure thay would be more than happy to help out :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2016
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  5. Wanda

    Wanda Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2016
    Location:
    Mandurah WA
    For got to add as well, to cut down steep time i put my bottles in frout of my laptot fan and shake the crap out of them after airing them 2-3 times a day and it cuts steep time down a lot
     
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  6. rupert

    rupert Crazy Chemist

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Location:
    NE NSW and SE QLD
    @crispernator :)
    Yay! Welcome to the rewarding labyrinth that is DIY.

    There are some solid tips above - removing the plunger and tipping into the top end is a much easier way to handle VG. I have a 10mL syringe dedicated to just this at all time (so it does not see anything other than pure VG). Also have one solely for PG.

    You seem to have everything you need in terms of equipment. I don't do speed steeping, so my bottles generally sit once mixed with a shake every now and again. The longer I have been doing this for, the less pedantic I have become in terms of ritual shaking, stirring and airing out.

    Fruits generally don't need steeping. Bakeries and creams/custards definitely benefit form a steep which can vary from one to six weeks in my experience.

    I would recommend a 3mL, 5mL and 10mL syringe set for day to day mixing.
    If you are mixing 10mL than 1% becomes 0.1mL, and if you are mixing 100mL it is 1mL, so the 3 and 5mL syringes will do the trick nicely across the board.
    I use a $3 battery powered milk frother to stir larger batches of mixes in plastic beakers. These then get poured directly into bottles.

    I tend to make new mixes in 10mL bottles (to save on wastage), and "batch mix". Wherein I will mix a few 10mL bottles of a new/trial recipe at differing concentration values to test what works better. These simply get mixed right into the bottle, and shaken, and then left to steep or vaped at leisure.
    For example:
    Bottle 1 - Strawberry 5% Cream 10%
    Bottle 2 - Strawberry 7% Cream 8%
    Bottle 3 - Strawberry 10% Cream 5%

    Once I nailed a few I have then made them into 100mL-500mL at a time.

    If you are only mixing for you, it becomes even more simple, as once you have done your initial calculations, you can simply mix the nic/flavours/PG by precise volume, and free pour the VG in to top off the mix. For larger (500mL) bottles, I make graduations on the side to show where PG should be sitting, and then a line to show how much VG I need to free pour to complete the bottle.

    I found personally it was best to start with simple 3-4 flavour recipes. Pick some components (say, a tropical flavoured end product), and then break it down.
    Tropical might become a mix of Pineapple, Guava, Coconut and Mango.
    From there you can dedicate the percentages to each flavour component and start tinkering.

    I start anywhere between 10-15% total flavour, so in this example, I might have:
    Pineapple 4%
    Guava - 2%
    Coconut - 1%
    Mango 4%
    Giving a total of 11% flavour. If i mix it and it is too strong on the mango and too weak on the pine, Ill simple rejig by a percent or so in each direction.

    The real beauty of DIY comes when you want to replicate a food flavour in your own interpretation.

    Say you want to try a strawberry shortcake.
    Start by breaking down the real food into its components: Fluffy light cake, cream, fresh strawberries, a slight vanilla flavour and perhaps some caramel drizzled over the top.
    From there you can start to take those flavours and separate them into your flavour concentrates. That is what I did for my Ichigo Keki recipe:
    http://vapercafeaustralia.com/threa...higo-keki-japanese-strawberry-shortcake.1719/

    The reality is that the more you play around, the more familiar you will become with the percentage levels of certain concentrates and how they should be used - for example, my mixes have fallen into the use of FlavourArts Fresh Cream at 1-2%, as I know thats what compliments the flavour I am looking for in the mixes it is used in.
     
  7. rupert

    rupert Crazy Chemist

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Location:
    NE NSW and SE QLD
    I guess the other salient points are-

    Don't get put off in the beginning. You WILL have mixes that turn out like garbage, but that is all part of learning how to use the concentrates to suit your tastes.

    Also - don't be put off by the initial cost. The cost of concentrates PG/VG etc may seem like a high initial outlay, but it is wayyyyyyyyyyyy cheaper in the long term.
    I can make some of my preferred flavours for less than $11 for 100mL now, and I like them more than premium juices.
     
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  8. crispernator

    crispernator Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2015
    Location:
    adelaide
    Hi guys sorry about the late reply i am still reading the posts ,have been tracking my latest vaporeyes order i was told it was in transit i tell you what that is one hell of a place to find but i found it and now have my order .Ok Oldhead dont have a wife had three got rid of all of em terrible creatures so no nail polish ,only joking ladies . Do you think that pg and vg need to be kept in the fridge ? my local vape shop keeps them on the shelf so have to question that one ,when i was using nic i was religeos almost anul about cleaning my syringe would wash it for about 5 mins under hot water after use so i am extra carefull about that ,spread sheet soulds like a great idea or even a note book with secret recipes in (now im getting carried away) but a good idea ,i have seen mo has a great range of concentrates also aussie e cigs and juice factory so many different places to get things from but i have to do this as i think it is another way to go with the vaping scene ,some go cloud chasing i think il go along the juice trail .

    Rupert when i was using nic i tried to suck it up with a needle on ,hmmmm didnt go well !so now i would use just the syringe .I have the following syringes 3ml 5 ml 10ml and a monster 35ml also 3ml pipets will have to get a couple more glass mixing beakers im sure and i have two milk frothers i think they were abot 3 dollers from china.I have hada look at some of the flavours on e juice me up and there are some simple ones i would like to try ,anyway as you say i am sure i will make some diasters but it can only get better maybe even earn me some money in the future ( now im really dreaming) thanks for all the advice and help .
     
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  9. rupert

    rupert Crazy Chemist

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Location:
    NE NSW and SE QLD
    No problems at all mate - if I can help in any way let me know :)

    Sounds like you are all set for mixing equipment.

    I don't keep my PG or VG in the fridge. Seems like overkill, and its not likely to degrade under standard temp and pressure.

    John at SydneyVapor has a great concentrate selection, as well as clone packs. He also has a concentrate specific site at flavourworld.
    http://www.sydneyvapour.com.au
    http://www.flavourworld.com.au
    I love the JuiceFactory - they have a seriously large range of concentrates, and I have always had good quality stuff from them:
    http://www.juicefactory.com.au
    JuiceWhore also gets a good portion of my money. They are a great place to source FlavourArt concentrates:
    http://juicewhore.com.au/

    I now end up ordering direct from manufacturers a lot (except for Capella, their postage is outrageous - fu cappella). If your looking at bulk ordering, setting up a wholesale account with a manufacturer is a good option.

    I use 28G blunt needle tips now for concentrates and nic (PG base).
    Take the plunger out and pour direct into the chamber. The fine needle tip keeps everything in the syringe until you want to plunge it out. These do make it difficult to suck up anything though.
    You can get various bunt needle tips from eBay.
     
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  10. crispernator

    crispernator Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2015
    Location:
    adelaide
    Hi Rupert I am going to try a caramel butterscotch cream as my first attempt just getting all the flavours ect together thanks for your help
     
    rupert likes this.
  11. crispernator

    crispernator Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2015
    Location:
    adelaide
    Hi all well been looking at the assortment of flavors that are available on the nest from different suppliers ,i am geting confused here with all the different names i have got flavor apprentice ,flavor art ,cappela and i think there were a few more ,who is good and who isnt this is spinnen me out here . I have got one glass beaker a 100ml and was looking at maybe getting some more think the lowest to go would be 50ml as i could not see any use for a 5 or 10ml then there is another spinner prices vary heaps on ebay from one seller to another .I tell you what this juice game isnt for the faint hearted thats for sure ,what with smashin me kangerteck last night ,getting computer eye from studyin formulas and a 360 degree swiveling head from checking our all these websites for flavours l am gonna have to go and have a bex and a lie down i think this is truly becoming a challenging event .
     
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  12. laurie9300

    laurie9300 Photoshop Whore

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Location:
    Western Sydney, Australia
    It does get complicated.........

    The problem is, some flavors are good from one supplier, and others are good from another.

    You have to do your research first, or you end up with a boost loss of stuff you will never use!

    My first tip is...... http://e-liquid-recipes.com/flavors

    This page will list all the flavors under the sun. If you type your flavor into the search box, then click on the "recipes" column header, you will end up with the most commonly used flavors/brands of that type. This is a good indication of what is good, and what isn't.

    For example "cream"...... http://e-liquid-recipes.com/flavors?q=Cream&sort=num_recipes&direction=desc

    This will show you, the most used cream is TPA Bavarian, so it's a pretty good cream to have.

    If you then click on "Bavarian Cream (TPA)" the next page has a lot of info on recommended percentages etc. You can also read many people's "Notes" on this flavour.

    Do this for all the flavors you are thinking of buying, that way you'll end up with the best ones.

    Here's the same page for Butterscotch...

    http://e-liquid-recipes.com/flavors?q=Butterscotch&sort=num_recipes&direction=desc
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2016
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  13. laurie9300

    laurie9300 Photoshop Whore

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Location:
    Western Sydney, Australia
    Tip 2

    DIYORDIE... there is a whole series of these flavour talk videos that are worth watching.

    These 2 will help you.......



     
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  14. laurie9300

    laurie9300 Photoshop Whore

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Location:
    Western Sydney, Australia
  15. crispernator

    crispernator Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2015
    Location:
    adelaide
    Thanks laurie 9300 appreciate the effort to show me all this ,it isn't that bad as my post more tounge in cheek but even so it is a bit daunting when you see how many different companies put out flavourings ,I had a horrible thought when he mentioned hangseng butterscotch ,now I tried this as a normal vape last year and thought it was disgusting ,I wonder if I was trying to vape a flavour ? maybe that's why it was so horrible I actually had the same with the caramel as well I'm sitting here laughing because I rekon that's what it was hahahaha thanks for the videos and help appreciate it heaps guys
     
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  16. rupert

    rupert Crazy Chemist

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Location:
    NE NSW and SE QLD
    The concepts in DIY are pretty simple. Percentages, mixing concentrates, calculating nic, etc.

    Its the art involved that is the challenge.
     
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  17. crispernator

    crispernator Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2015
    Location:
    adelaide
    Well i have just ordered my first lot of flavourings as per what i will need for my butterscotch caramel creme juice have my pg/vg sorted from my local vape shop so here we go all i have to do is wait ,i have my trusty 100ml beaker ,my coffee frother ,syringes of varying sizes and pipets nothing can stop me now ,well only aust post.
     
  18. crispernator

    crispernator Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2015
    Location:
    adelaide
    Ok drumrole please gentlemen ,i have made my very first batch of e juice today DADA ! .I dont know what sort of a disaster it will be but it is steeping away in my cupboard right now as i get ready to order some more flavours to make such things as cnamon gummy bears ,and cheescake ect ..My glass wear arrived today unfortunately my 500ml beaker has been broken by a baggage handler in kuratchi however all the rest arrived in good order ,even my tiney weeny 5ml one ,have no idea what ill use it for but it came with the set .
    I did get a sampler from the juice factory something called vanillin? hmm dont know what ill use that for either anyway im a happy camper today .
     
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  19. rupert

    rupert Crazy Chemist

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Location:
    NE NSW and SE QLD
    Awesome :)
    I look forward to hearing of some of your creations.

    Vanillin is a compound that is used to impart a vanilla flavour.
    If the sample you received is a powder, it will need to be mixed with PG at 1/10 ratio before being used in mixes.
    If it is a liquid already, it will be good to go! :)

    Try it in mixes at about 0.5-1% to start with.
     
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  20. crispernator

    crispernator Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2015
    Location:
    adelaide
    I bought some sweetner from china just wondering if i should ditch it its ethyl maltol 10%in pg from a mob called my fresh lab what do you think ?
     

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